2014 AGM Discussion

[Kevin]

Please utilize this thread to discuss questions regarding the AGM.

[jray]

Some information on how we got here and the proposed constitution and rule changes. Some time ago Micah202 was looking at middle ground for the two classes. Two of us responded and liked the idea. I ended up going forward to those ends.

Part of the initial proposal to the NA class, looking for neutral ground.

1. loosing the cabin restrictions allowing boats built to the current plans available from Watershed to be class legal. In my opinion a much needed move regardless.

2. Allowing other then wood hull construction. The initial thought was someday there will be a production hull/boat and if they measure to the plans we should include them in the class. Now that is happening, so it is something that I believe needs addressed.

3. The third and last on the proposal was changing the max P measurement for the main from 285" to 295" allowing boats alread built to that original rule in. In addition it was a reach out to the NA class as their rules allow that dimension. Because of two different methods of measuering between the classes are measurement of 294" would equal their 295"

Because some of these things needed to be addressed regardless. Some members including myself have pushed to get the process going. Part of this is allowing proposals, debate and finally a vote. All are a great and give voice to everyone involved.

[slowpoke]

Hi guys, sorry I haven't been active lately, I don't get computer time very much lately. But I am listening to what's going on, and am happy so far. Thanks for all the hard work (again) that you are all putting in to get this taken care of.
Rocky

[micah202]

.

.....I see these moves of the class association(CA) to open to the PDX deck profile to be quite positive,.
.........as I see it,,both classes have a similar one-design hull,,,
,,,,with builder/owners having a choice of having a relatively OD set-up in rudder & keel in the CA,,, or a bit more 'play' in the NA rules....both classes are still pretty 'open' on spar material,,and sails are only restricted by spar lengths.

.........so far,,in the fleet racing I've seen,mega-sails such as spinnakers have shown themselves to present their -own- handicaps,just as monster-mains likely will,,,,,with surprisingly little advantage even in lighter winds!With choice of mast material,,racing with an alloy spar has not shown itself to be a particular handicap in a fleet of carbon spars.....more 'data' will present itself in the NW next year,as 1 or 2 more alloy spar boats join the racing.

...in the NW,,the longer mainsail luff has caused some sailor 'comments' at times-certainly I'm happy to keep my 'P' where it is,,and again haven't seen a particular handicap for having a higher boom than the other boats in the fleet.

...In fact,,,the variables of my hull would be the -last- I'd choose if I was building my hull shape with intent of optimizing hull shape,,,it seems to me that boathandling and strategy are far more of an important element than the variables in the build!...by far the most important variable in the boats will be having a regular sailing partner

[ryderp]

I haven't raced my boat yet (hopefully next season), but I suspect that you are correct on all of your points.

- I have a giant spinnaker and I wish that I didn't (at some point I'll have it re-cut). We've definitely been over on our ears a couple of times
- The main that I bought originally had a P of 295" and I had 10" cut off to meet "class" rules. I wouldn't go back because I'm tired of ducking under low booms over the years and I like the height as it is.
- Honestly, with an 18' boat, I have to believe that winning a race is going to be about strategy upwind, and first to plane off the wind. I was always told (and I believe) that the most important piece of equipment on the boat is the nut at the end of the tiller.

By the way, if it were my design, I would have standardized the foils, but that's pretty much happening all by itself.

Phil

[Chad]

I think this was discussed by email among some of us, but can we send out a "here's what's happening" pm to the member list? Something to make it clear that class "membership" is available to the whole forum membership?

Any objections?

(I can do it with a little copying/pasting using the pm tools, not sure I won't bump against some folder size limit though, maybe the admins can do it easier?)

[Marino]

What constitutes a AGM member that is allowed to vote?
1. One who has built an i550 that is finished ?
2. Is in the processes of building an i550 ?
3. Is complete and able to sail the boat ?
Maybe there is something already written about this, if I missed it or overlooked it, sorry for bring this up again.

[Chad]

That's one of the things I wanted to clear up with a pm blast. Having tablets take over my life, I'm waiting for a reason to go to the office and use a computer with easier copy/paste abilities to send a note to everybody...

I quoted the rules for Noel in the nearby member thread, but the voting member threshold is basically that by Feb 1st 2014 you need to have a boat with the hull panels, internal structure, and deck permanently attached. No fee this year, although something nominal is likely to be discussed at the AGM to cover basic expenses such as the website (thanks to Tim for covering that freely, so far!)

[Marino]

Thank you, for responding back.

[Marino]

Suggestion; The two most affected by any rule changes are "WaterShed" and "Velocity boatworks" should or would they be given voting rights, regardless if they build a i550 or not.

[Marino]

Just viewed your response to Justwaanagofast on the AGM member list

[Marino]

Will there be a discussion on a standard form of measuring the hulls to check the legality or if it is within the guidelines of the i550's when a competition is completed.
Realizing that at the beginning there would be small fleets, but look to the future to improve the system for measuring, if it can be improved, so that it is consistent.

[jray]

That can be brought up for discussion. At present I don't believe uniform measuring instructions or worksheet are in place. The job of putting this together would likely fall more to the Chief Measurer and technical committee going forward.

[Marino]

I understand, the class members in charge will have to work something out. It will be interesting to see the numbers when that day comes, how wide or small the differences will be between the varies boats built.

[Chad]

Assuming this whole election process goes through (ya never know!), I guess that makes me the next measurer. I'll nominate Michael and Geoff to the technical committee, and start looking for one more. (If anybody knows somebody interested/persuadable with a strong sailing background, let me know!)

I do plan to put a measurement guide together. And a spreadsheet, maybe through Google docs, where folks can type in their own info, and it will be available in one location for all to see.

To start, here's a simplified jig for capturing most of the hull bottom numbers, at the transom and 90" forward of the transom (frame 124). The results of this measurement would be an example of the kind of information I'd like to see put into the spreadsheet.

[i550sailor@aol.com]

Assuming this whole election process goes through (ya never know!), I guess that makes me the next measurer. I'll nominate Michael and Geoff to the technical committee, and start looking for one more. (If anybody knows somebody interested/persuadable with a strong sailing background, let me know!)

I do plan to put a measurement guide together. And a spreadsheet, maybe through Google docs, where folks can type in their own info, and it will be available in one location for all to see.

To start, here's a simplified jig for capturing most of the hull bottom numbers, at the transom and 90" forward of the transom (frame 124). The results of this measurement would be an example of the kind of information I'd like to see put into the spreadsheet.

i550_BotJig.jpg

"THE JIG IS UP"


I had some time this morning and built the jig, it works wonderfully for the task and took about 3 minutes to build. FYI : I have cut and built everything as close to the plans/tyveks as possible (like maybe a 1/16 deviation +/- to my cuts). At F 214 the chine was dead center of B and C and I had a gap at the center mark of .3.
At 124 My chine was 1/4" off (outboard) of center at B and C (both panels are tight to the frame and the panels are centered where they were zip tied together?) my gap at the center mark was about 5/16". Chad will get my vote for measurer.

[Chad]

The gap to the hull at centerline should be 1/4" to be perfectly built to plan, so your .3 and 5/16" gaps are within 1/16" of that (which is what I have seen in every boat I've looked at so far).

The chine itself isn't meant to be exactly centered between B and C (well it sort of is, but in a diagonal way)- they just register the jig on the hull, and they will show if the chine has been radiused more than rule 2.3 and "hull panels meeting at the chine" will allow.

The beam at chine is captured by the gap in the "tick marks" made on the hull where the arrow points, when the jig is used from each side (P&S). A boat made perfectly to plan will have no gap in the tick marks, but this is a low-angle surface so minor imperfections get magnified and the rule allows generously for this with the +/- 1" tolerance.

As we get into this measurement stuff, we'll try to illustrate this with some pictures and drawings to show how it can be done easily.

[Marino]

As the number of boats increase in numbers to more than five in a race, will there be a discussion as to how best to measure the boats displacement to prevent under-weight boats.

[Chad]

Yes, the class will need to eventually purchase a small load cell or crane scale. I don't plan to tackle that issue right away, but it is on the to-do list.

For now, here's a method to get within a few pounds:

The boat stays on the trailer the entire time. Put the scale under the tongue near the end. You can even put a block on the scale to lift the tongue so you can see the dial. Record the weight. Now, slide the boat aft on the trailer 12" to 18". You must measure exactly how many inches you moved it, and record that. With the scale in the same location under the tongue, record the new scale reading. Finally, measure the distance in inches between the trailer axle (wheel centerline) and the point on the tongue where it touches the scale. You have then four measurements:

W1 = first (heavier) scale reading in lbs, W2 = second scale reading in lbs, X = the distance you shifted the boat in inches, C = distance between trailer axle and scale point in inches.

The formula is Boat Weight = C (W1-W2)/X

A couple of notes. The result, like any measurement, is sensitive to the accuracy of the input data. In this case, the most critical is the distance you slide the boat. One inch error out of 12 inches will really make a difference in the result. Slide the boat as far as you can and still have a readable load on the scales. Notice, too, that by subtracting the two scale readings, any constant error in the scale is canceled out.

[micah202]

....yeh,,it's basically 'owner's honor' at this point.

...a simple way to get a -ballpark- weight is to stop by a truck-weigh scale when you're doing a roadtrip,,,I found one closed,,but the scale was still reading,,,disconnect the tongue,,,so all boat/trailer weight is on the scale**,,,,get a boat/trailer weight,,,,,ironically,,,mine read 1550!!
..........then once you've launched,,,you can get a reasonable trailer weight by putting a decent bathroom scale under each ground-point of the trailer.....
,,,,,,subtract the 2nd # from the first.................yup,,,I said 'ballpark'

.....**...do I need to remind you to get off the scale??