Line drawing of 1/2 cabin wide cockpit

[i550sailor@aol.com]

Does anyone have a good line drawing of 1/2 cabin wide cockpit, side and view from above?
Thanks

[Chad]

You want a deck plan, and a cut section through the centerline, looking sideways? With hardware, without?

I'll be in front of my computer tomorrow after about noon, should be easy to shake something out of it...

[i550sailor@aol.com]

You want a deck plan, and a cut section through the centerline, looking sideways? With hardware, without?

I'll be in front of my computer tomorrow after about noon, should be easy to shake something out of it...

Chad, I appreciate you taking the time, I would like a side view for sure (like the one on the melges 20 page) but more views if you find time, I am sure others on here would find them useful too. Thanks, Mark

[Chad]

I thought I had drawn the cabin per the plans at some point, but can't find that at the moment. I just have mine on my current file, which is pretty close. This is also my cockpit shape; I'll spend a few moments tomorrow and mock up the "wide cockpit" straight sided version. I'll try to spend a few minutes stripping away my "gizmo" stuff, and present just a straight up deck plan. Here's what I have at the moment, though:

i550_Side.pdf

(7.75 KiB) Downloaded 392 times

i550_RiggedDeck.pdf

(257.01 KiB) Downloaded 371 times

[i550sailor@aol.com]

I thought I had drawn the cabin per the plans at some point, but can't find that at the moment. I just have mine on my current file, which is pretty close. This is also my cockpit shape; I'll spend a few moments tomorrow and mock up the "wide cockpit" straight sided version. I'll try to spend a few minutes stripping away my "gizmo" stuff, and present just a straight up deck plan. Here's what I have at the moment, though:

i550_Side.pdf

i550_RiggedDeck.pdf

Thanks Chad, Your attention to detail on your boat is amazing. Thanks

[Chad]

Here's the half-cabin, wide (straight) cockpit, with just a little rigging…

i550_DeckWCP.pdf

(446.26 KiB) Downloaded 366 times

(on opposite sides I'm showing longitudinal and lateral jib tracks, and the hardware to cross sheet. I'm a main traveller kind of guy, so that's what I've shown, with the trav and a 2:1/fine going to the helm's forward hand. I'm leaving mast and pole lines out of this, since that is so variable with different builders.)

[Justwannagofast]

Very cool renderings Chad. Any chance the lines could be darkened up. Have tried, but the rendering comes out quite faint unless I enlarge it.

[Tim Ford]

I can do it in Photoshop if you'd like, Chad. Have to do it all the time with NMR data. Here is a JPG. not as elegant, but thicker.

[Chad]

I can heavy-up with the line weights, sure.

I guess I should ask (you and others) if there's something in particular you'd like shown? I could (and have!!!) go crazy with a layout for every system (ie, poles below deck articulating and not, above deck articulating Gougeon or Mini style, etc), but with so many folks doing different things a lot of it won't apply to most boats....

[Justwannagofast]

I know I'm offering..and don't shoot me..a PDX style below the deck articulating sprit. I believe it articulates 18 to 20 degrees. I like the idea of articulating, but understand the majority will most likely be fixed.

[Chad]

That's fine, Geoff!
I'll put something up tomorrow. I have some ideas to get a few more than the 20-ish degrees they get from theirs (moving the pivot aft, rather than forward as they did. All still internally/butt-end controlled. Craig Stay started down this path with his)...

[Justwannagofast]

I think the track could also be curved somewhat to allow a bit more articulation. Theirs is straight. And further back would be better as well.

[i550sailor@aol.com]

It would be great to see some articulating pole designs, I started laying down my cockpit decking tonight, working my way forward, giving me more time to wrap my head around the articulating pole. Seeing some designs would be a huge help. Craig Stays design looks really good. The only boat with an articulating pole I have sailed was an Antrim 27, but I want the pole inside the boat coming straight out of the bow,,,, this will be the toughest part of the build for me.

[Chad]

Here's an idea for improving the articulation over the PDX snout-style, without going for the complexity of my "puck" design (which allows a lot more over-rotation):

i550_prod.pdf

(82.72 KiB) Downloaded 326 times

[Chad]

…and here's an updated deck plan, using an under deck articulating pole, "normal" jib tracks, main trav, a cooler/bin along the center, and 6" rolled cockpit edges…
(side view still in the works)

[micah202]

…and here's an updated deck plan, using an under deck articulating pole, "normal" jib tracks, main trav, a cooler/bin along the center, and 6" rolled cockpit edges…
(side view still in the works)

i550_VBdeck.jpg

,,,,that extra rotation would come with a complication**.....you'd need to de-rotate the pole before retracting it,or it'd hit some framing further back,no?


.........**...I have a feeling there's a few of those with all your crazy systems!

[Chad]

Yeah, to drop you've got to trip one more line, so 3 instead of 4, making an extra 1/4 second of work for the pit guy....
I like arranging these so they all go in order across the "keyboard", usually left to right goes pole, tackline, halyard; here you'd add swing line (guy?) first, then pole-tackline-halyard...

But I know what you're saying, and that extra line can cost half a minute if it needs to be verbally explained at every corner....

I'm thinking, if you go to the trouble to articulate at all internally, you might as well make it worth the build time and bow-weight. This way gets the tack about 21" off center, versus around 15" with the "snout" design.

[i550sailor@aol.com]

Chad,

"You the man"….. That helps big time, I am heading out to the boat right now, to ponder the possibilities ….. I do wonder about putting a stopper or deflector to protect the frame from an overzealous crew member during a tough rounding or lets call it a jousting session, where you need to blow the pole deploy line in a hurry.

Thanks for all your help on this.
Mark

[Chad]

With my more aggressive articulator, I reinforced the hull panel, and mounted some delrin guides to nudge the pole butt toward the center. My pole uses guys, so the articulation pressure reduces as the pole retracts. This design doesn't work that way, and I don't see a way to design it to release automatically. I'd definitely add some wedges/guides behind the butt with this setup.

[i550sailor@aol.com]

I tried to figure it out with my framing square, are you thinking its about 24 degrees of articulation?. I like the idea and plan to run with it.
Thanks again Chad, and if you come up with any more thoughts on it, make sure you post it, I am sure that the other builders will find it as helpful for them.

[micah202]

Yeah, to drop you've got to trip one more line, so 3 instead of 4, making an extra 1/4 second of work for the pit guy....
I like arranging these so they all go in order across the "keyboard", usually left to right goes pole, tackline, halyard; here you'd add swing line (guy?) first, then pole-tackline-halyard...

But I know what you're saying, and that extra line can cost half a minute if it needs to be verbally explained at every corner....

I'm thinking, if you go to the trouble to articulate at all internally, you might as well make it worth the build time and bow-weight. This way gets the tack about 21" off center, versus around 15" with the "snout" design.

....I certainly agree that more range is better...but at what cost?
.......and sure it's only an extra 1/4 second--- -IF- it's -remembered-,,,but a -lot- more if missed for some reason,,
,,,and the pole retracts with quite a force,there's actually a potential for damage in a 'mis-fire'.........and be sure there's nobody 'on the head' at the time
..............and 'pit guy' sounds like you'd be sailing with 3?

..........and a P/S 'keyboard' of 6-8 cleats if I'm reading yer right ...
.......................you should be sponsored by 'spaghetti factory'

....okay,,,joshing/trashtalk over,,,I love ribbing you on those complexities--you've got -so- many twiddlies onboard,,I can't imagine things not going pear-shaped a lot of the time

....in terms of those 'explanations',,which end up being no-fun for anyone as the mark gets closer,,,I've had the best luck by having the crew(usually singular),,,take the helm at least for the hoist and douse--keeping myself in the hotseat,,,

.............or 'on the keyboard' in your case
................................just how many cleats on your boat??

[Chad]

Hah, I have spent a lot of time as driver or crew boss on bigger boats full of voice-activated crew. Rehearsing maneuvers is second nature...

I don't think this "complexity" is too risky. If someone forgets to ease the swing line, the pole jambs a little and just sits there- you can still trip the next line on the keyboard (tackline), gather the foot, and proceed with the drop, cleaning up the pole after. Some folks trip the tackline first, regardless, to avoid the fast incoming pole issue.

"Pit person" just refers to what the forward person is doing, not that there's an extra person. Sometimes I'm tripping and controlling the spin halyard, ferinstance.

42 cleats on my boat, counting in my head. Lots are duplicates at double ended lines, many are just tuning adjustments that you don't change at the corners, only a handful (!) are for the crew. I 'can' sail simply, with stuff locked off or centralized, and basically add complexity as I think my crew can handle it. And, every builder-skipper should spend some time as crew on their own boat, to see how "stuff" is really working...

[micah202]

Hah, I have spent a lot of time as driver or crew boss on bigger boats full of voice-activated crew. Rehearsing maneuvers is second nature...

I don't think this "complexity" is too risky. If someone forgets to ease the swing line, the pole jambs a little and just sits there- you can still trip the next line on the keyboard (tackline), gather the foot, and proceed with the drop, cleaning up the pole after. Some folks trip the tackline first, regardless, to avoid the fast incoming pole issue.

"Pit person" just refers to what the forward person is doing, not that there's an extra person. Sometimes I'm tripping and controlling the spin halyard, ferinstance.

42 cleats on my boat, counting in my head. Lots are duplicates at double ended lines, many are just tuning adjustments that you don't change at the corners, only a handful (!) are for the crew. I 'can' sail simply, with stuff locked off or centralized, and basically add complexity as I think my crew can handle it. And, every builder-skipper should spend some time as crew on their own boat, to see how "stuff" is really working...

......42 cleats!.....there's the beauty of i550's --a place for tweak-heads like you to have total freedom to go crazy,and finally learn their lesson!......

....'Carbon's about the opposite set-up philosophy as your spaghetti-boat ,,FD vs 49er,,with -12- cleats iirc,, 3-halyards,,,1 rig tensioner, ,,main has outhaul downhaul,vang cleats,no traveller cleats-just a simple bridle works fine,and the main simply sheets off the boom ,,,,,the jib has sheet-cleats,,though I'll be adding 2 for jib-twings soon....2 for pole-rotation,, 1-spinn tack-line,,I'm glad to have changed out the original pole system(a la tokyo-trash) for a much simpler pole-rotator,,and the spinn halyard connects to the pole for it's in/out function.

..........I just wish we were in the same fleet so I could enjoy to constantly heckle you as much as I do the portland boats for their ~$10G rig/sail systems!

........time will show-----it really don't matter -what- you do--they all end up the same speed!

[Chad]

Heehee. Different strokes, clearly!

Here's a couple side views of a more typical boat, having a pretty conventional rig, short cabin, and so on. I've taken the chainplates out to the rail a la open5.70, figuring that's a tidier way to do it for say, glass boats.

[Chad]

Ok, really having fun now…
-here's a version with the slightly prettier (sorry, Tim!) curved cockpit sides.