Rethinking The Keel

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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:32 pm

how much breeze did you have on in that shot, Michael...hard to tell from the tiny photo. ?
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby micah202 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:53 pm

~12knots I'd guess.

...messing with the larger chute, tried to go above the photoboat when a puff came. All laughs! :D
We were both seasoned skiffies, know to 'stay committed'.



It wouldn't be so funny if one of us got timid, or slid into the cockpit at the wrong moment. :?
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.....utherrwise,yerulll endap takling uhnd rithing rike ah do--NAHT GUD,ehnytime
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Thu May 30, 2019 10:08 pm

Still messing with the laminate shape....doesn't. quite. fit.

Bit more with the sander and long board and then off we go!

IMG_2977.jpg
IMG_2974.jpg
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:38 pm

So when things get hot here in B'more, what could be more fun than messing with cement and melted lead? Got a huge assist from the neighborhood kid (12 year old) who melts metal down for fun and profit. We got the lead cast this morning before the temps hit 100+ F for the third straight day in a row. Some shots of the process:

hanginTree.jpg
here's a shot of how I suspended the foil to use as a plug for the cement mold.

FinPlugMold.jpg
cement poured and packed around the foil section

NoahCrucible.jpg
getting the crucible out of the furnance

NoahPour.jpg
the kid pours the lead...he did not spill a drop!

Can't wait to bust the lead out of the mold and devise an attachment strategy!
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Warren Nethercote » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:28 am

Any idea how the Gougeons attached their lead? They had a similar keel for the Everglades Challenge did they not?

Unfortunately, but Jan and Meade or gone and I don't recall the video showing that.
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:04 pm

Well, without consulting the Gougeons, I proceeded with the attachment and we'll see how it goes with the actually sailing. The pour came out to about 26 pounds. Maybe could have done more but with temps over 100, we threw in the towel and said enough is enough. I cracked the mold yesterday and went ahead with drilling out the holes (two 3/8ths and one 5/16th) and sinking the threaded rod in the fir laminate. NOTE: ADDING A DROP OR TWO OF LIGHT MACHINE OIL TO THE TIP OF THE DRILL BIT MAKES DRILLING THROUGH LEAD MUCH MUCH EASIER!

Later on, earlier last evening, I checked the job and lifted up the keel - the damn thing is HEAVY! I'll finish cleaning it up and fairing it today and add some big ass fender washers to the threaded rod. To tell the truth, I'm pretty psyched about this and cannot wait to slide it into the boat and finally go SAILING!

TwentySixLber.jpg

LeadSet1.jpg

LeadShoeOn.jpg

TempsJulyCaniclue.jpg
finally, today the high will be about 80...I can deal with that!
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Warren Nethercote » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:16 pm

Tim, will you put a foam or softwood tip on it to bury the bolts and then glass the whole thing?
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:50 pm

Excellent question Warren! Today I mixed up some very firm microballoon goop and am doing a thick build of that easily faired stuff. Quick and easy solution. Tomorrow, after some sanding, I'm going to visit the boat to see if it all fits in the keel slot and if there is enough to do a light E-glass wrap.

Fingers crossed!
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:50 pm

OK, taking Warren's excellent suggestion, I made a softwood insert with the fastener bolt areas cut out to match the profile and just glopped it in with some stiff microballoon goop. Then I laid on more light fairing good and just keep building it up. It faired OK, not perfect but to be honest, I am WAY past the point of caring! I'm going to take this puppy down to the boat tomorrow and go sailing (weather permitting). I'll get back to y'all and report the findings. But all-in-all this may be the simple way of building a no-hassle keel for future builders.

1woodInsert.jpg


2BoltOn.jpg


3ItsNotFair.jpg
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:52 pm

a few more pix:

4EglassRaeadfy.jpg


5eGlassOn.jpg


6GlassOn2.jpg


7orangeIsFast.jpg
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:53 pm

I cut about a foot off the top of the foil with a handsaw....it should rest flush with the existing cockpit sole.

8OrangeIsFast2.jpg
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:34 pm

SOME OBSERVATIONS with regard to the 1st sail with the new "Speed Keel"

- it has very hot. 96 degrees and high humidity. I get stupid when it's that hot.
- it took a long while to get the boat rigged and I was getting stupider and stupider in the heat and humidity--this is while still at the dock
- I didn't want to jinx this first sail by looking at the weather forecast (stupid)
- I went out singlehanding without installing my hiking straps...which was stupid.
- but it was my birthday, so I figured I was due the sail and the hell with it, I'm going!!!

Leaving the creek, the breeze was building from 8-10 to well, more than 10. I should have said "screw it" turned back. But I didn't. I also only took the main with me. I should have brought the jib -- it would have been a lot easier to deal with only singlehanding. A lot.

I had some dumbass, not-particularly-paying-proper attention too well moments trying to get the main up...had to re-run some lines and had a halyard wrap from the spin halyard, yada yada yada. BUT: I finally got the main up and was scooting along nicely, playing the puffs which had now built to 14-16. Boat was tender but manageable. And quite fast.

FirstSailNewKell.jpg
- please ignore the goofy tack arrangement on my main -- I had to jury-rig some stuff

While setting out, I realised I had neglected bringing my paperwork folder with me, which contains my registration, insurance papers, etc. But I never see the coast guard on the river and figured, ah...what the hell. Right? Of course, on my farthest point of sail from my creek, I see an orange RIB swoop in and raft next to another small powerboat about a half mile away. Uh oh, better turn around and make a beeline for my creek and club!!! Maybe I'll make it before they finish with the powerboat and come over to hassle me!

Of course, my creek and club were dead downwind, so I let out the main and began hightailing it back to my creek doing nicely SOG wise. I took my hand off the tiller to go forward and adjust something or other, or maybe to get my water Igloo cooler as I was getting seriously dehydrated, and in a big puff, the boat crash jibed and wiped out completely. One minute I was sailing along beating feet back into the club and the next I was sideways in the water, boom dragging along nicely cutting a big wake to starboard.

I was a bit confused, took me a while to figure out why I was clinging to the companionway hatch, with the cockpit sole near vertical rather than its usual flat, reassuring normal operating position. Slowly my dim brain registered: oh, I crash gybed in a big puff. Surprisingly, with the main sheet free to run, the boat rounded up nicely and got back on her feet! I sheeted in and bore off and continued on, unhindered, nothin' broken, back to my creek and my club.

So long and short of it: the new keel is KILLER great! (apologies for the long narrative)

PlaneRideNewKeel.jpg
-- ignore the slop in the starboard lower -- that was after I got in, trying to realign the rig.
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Last edited by Tim Ford on Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Warren Nethercote » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:51 pm

Well done! The other side of this approach is that you can work lead with a hand-plane, so those wishing to avoid a driveway foundry could shape a lead fin extension cold. Not to mention the practical advantage of inserting the keel from the top.

But don't forget what happened to Leon in PhattAss: he hadn't bothered to fix his keel down, had a knockdown during which his keel retracted and the boat turned turtle. :-( (It was on his FB page, not the forum)
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:08 pm

Thanks and yes! Lead is immensely malleable and can be shaped easily.

Good suggestion with regard to the tie-down strap! At least my brain was working well enough to deploy one....I thought of the misery of having my brand new dagger board on the bottom of the Magothy River and decided to take precautions. I ran the white line pictured here through the handle straps and over to two spectra hard points (bit of an oxymoron there, I guess) to make sure it wasn't going anywhere. Easy to rig and unrig, which is a bonus.

TieDownLine.jpg
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby mmarkomarko » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:35 pm

Tim - thanks for sharing - really enjoyed reading this. Do you think you could have done with a bit more lead, or are you happy with where you are now?

I think the new keel needs more testing. Make sure you allow for more sailing time in the coming days. And with temperatures like that, it's would be a shame not to do it!

With regards to building a keel like this - you could easily stack strips/sheets of different width of roofing lead to form the foil shape then just fill and fair it afterwards!
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Marino » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:56 pm

Tim, yes well done.
Would be interesting as too whether it would be good to use a trapeze system, due to the lighter keel. Maybe that way you can push the boat to its limits.
Also does the boat handle better?
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:04 pm

Answer to the questions:

- yes sir, a bit more lead would be a good idea, but I'll see how this work out in the meantime!
- definitely more testing! I have two more crew coming for the next go-around, and they are hefty fellows :lol:
- love the roofing lead idea!
- traps would be awesome but I'm probably to old for that stuff 8-)
- boat always handled very well even with the bulb. It turns on its own length now, pretty much.

BTW, to Thomas, as it turns out, due to having to sand aggressively and shape the foil more to the dimensions I had laid up the Douglas fir, I guess the foil
looks a lot more like a NACA 0065 than a NACA 0012...such is life!
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:52 pm

Report #2 -- another venture out with the light weight keel.

Overall: hmmm....dicey but not a fair test. And uh-oh, more water shipped aft of the keel box! :x

My daughter, who has limited experience on the i550, and I set out last week for a weekend day sail. Fx was for sunny and breeze 10-15 with higher gusts. We saw 15-20 all day and it was clearly too much for our lightweight crew and my daughter's inexperience in small, powered up vessels. We did install the aft two hiking straps, but we were scurrying about too much to really use them in anger. Boat was on its ear a lot, as the breeze was all over the place, 8 kn from 110 to 18 kn from 90 degrees and it proved too boisterous for us. So we headed back into the creek, jib reaching at a high rate of speed, and then doused the sail and went swimming.

What's alarming is the amount of water I found once we pulled the boat. Clearly there is ingress somewhere and tomorrow I plan to jack the boat up using two scissors jacks to get a good look at the exit for the keel slot. I suspect there has been some delamination or damage in that area and hence all the water below deck. Hoping for nothing too serious.

Has anyone used any of the penetrating epoxies, such as TotalBoat Penetrating Epoxy and/or TotalBoat FixWood Repair Epoxy? I'm wondering if I should give them a try.
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Thomas » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:24 pm

It was time , yes we capsized sailing into the club delaying the jibe and over we went . I climbed onto the board and she came back up !!!
So I finally made another board ,lead on the bottom about 60lb now .
Have not sailed it yet but soon .Its too HOT 97 F yesterday afternoon ,this planet is burning up.
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby Tim Ford » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:59 pm

Hah! Wow that looks amazingly like mine. Except yours looks better. Nice job!

Yesterday was Oct. 2 (I think)....it was 98 degrees on my front porch. One day next week I'll try the new keel again in light air and no sweat, finally.
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Re: Rethinking The Keel

Postby admin » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:18 pm

Got a rude lesson in righting moment last night, as I mentioned on the FB page. Bad tack with 500+ pounds of crew on the wrong side of the boat in about 10 knots of breeze, maybe 12 max.

Boat went right over.

I had been busy stowing the engine and was not minding the mainsheet. We were running out of water and needed to tack soon, and I did not notice the mainsheet was wrapped around the swivel block. This is something that needs constant attention on a set-up like mine.

So when I finally got to the cam cleat and blew the main, it didn't really release and in seconds, all three of us were in the water. Nice, warm water. But one of the crew's inflatable did not deploy and he was too startled to find the manual inflation tube....finally the other guy swam to him, released the tube and blew the thing up for him.

Another thing: I was wearing a "buff" as a social distancing measure. Once I swam around to grab the keel to right the boat, I couldn't figure out why I was so out of breath, as usually I'm a very strong swimmer - decades of ocean swimming and breathing exercises done in pools etc. But man I was gassed! Then I realized I was essentially being water-boarded by the COVID mask! Once I stripped that off, I was fine, righted the boat and swam to the stern to board.

The rest of the episode was a little dramatic but everyone made it on board OK, just one spinn sheet, a hat lost, and one dead iPhone.

But I think I'm going to go back to using the BULB! :lol:
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