CarbonOffset's renovations...

[Kevin]

To go with Chad's post above... I have no interest in sailing against others who intentionally manipulate hull shape as part of their build process. That's a different game that I didn't sign up for. I got through 1 build and kept the marriage in tact. I'm positive I couldn't get a second one built and say the same thing. Allowances in the rules are intended for accidental building errors such as stepping the hull while the fillets are drying and pushing the bottom panel below the sides in the bow (my personal mistake). They are not intended to allow limited hull shape development.

Good luck finishing up the mods and buttoning up CarbonOffset.

Kevin.

[Tim Ford]

micah if you want to send the pix to webwolf at nbayracing dot com I will gladly resize them and post them in this thread.
tf

[micah202]

micah if you want to send the pix to webwolf at nbayracing dot com I will gladly resize them and post them in this thread.
tf

..thanks Tim,,I'll do that .............at some point!

...in the meantime,here's the flikrlink.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/59103003@N ... 076955693/

[micah202]

.....got the decks all re-skinned over the past couple of days,,,the worklist get's to more -details-,,as I look towards the 'Cgod' in the gorge and want to make sure some elements in the rig etc are up to the test.....

..time t'get some paint....

[Chad]

No pics (checked yer flickr, none new). What, should we to take your word for it then?


Nother round o sanding for me this am, puttied all the visible hollows, quick sand (yeah right) tomorrow and then primer.

[micah202]

..mannnn it's been a -few- years since I've been doing boatwork....getting supplies always includes a PUNCH in the stomach over pricing....try $108Plus $20 taxes for 2 litres of 2part paint

[Chad]

.... but pixels are free!

I vastly exceeded my boat buck allotment last month and have now run out of epoxy. I'll wait to order til Monday so the next batch goes on the July bill- keeping the accountant less pissed at me. Already have the primer (and sandpaper) though, so progress won't come to a complete halt.

[micah202]

...oh don't remind me about epoxy--probably need ~1cup more,,so bought another gallon--to my memory the stuff was ~$70/gal,,just a -few- years ago,,,now $105

...I thought the working plans suggested ~5-6 galons to build the boat--I'm sure I've used ~4 on the renovation...glassed the inside of the hullbottom and both sides of the 12x4' cockpit as well as the sidewalls

...mann,,-everyone- should do a gang-build like the pdx folks,,,buy a barrel together,cloth by the roll,,,build a proper male jig,,,start a small factory,,heck even have a dedicated brewer then

[ryderp]

I was shocked at the price of the Perfection paint, although I have to say, the stuff is amazing and it spreads a lot further than I ever thought it would. The primer is cheaper, but at least half of it ends up as dust after sanding each coat, so I think that it is even more expensive.

I don't think that there is any way that you could build one of these boats with 5 or 6 gallons of epoxy. Maybe if I did everything perfectly, and if I didn't coat the inside with epoxy, and. . .nah, even then I think that I'd be way over 6 gallons.

I love the concept of vertical integration with the on-site brewer in order to cut costs. Probably could get a lot more people out building that way as well.

[Kevin]

Ahh, you've hit upon what the 550 in i550 really stands for, since it's not even 5.5 meters long. 550 beers is about what it takes to build one.

I used 10 gal of epoxy on my build and I know I sanded a lot of that off, but you got to put it on in order to sand it off. I have used another 1.5 gal on my current project which includes the rudder, cassette and gnav parts. Small potatoes compared to the new cockpit panels in your redo.

Am I correct that Ben built the cockpit with the wide side decks which narrows the pit drastically at frame 124. That was to satisfy some internal volume requirement of the micro class which I'm not trying to be a member of. there was no way I was going to build those wide side decks from day one.

Kevin.

[micah202]

Ahh, you've hit upon what the 550 in i550 really stands for, since it's not even 5.5 meters long. 550 beers is about what it takes to build one.

I used 10 gal of epoxy on my build and I know I sanded a lot of that off, but you got to put it on in order to sand it off. I have used another 1.5 gal on my current project which includes the rudder, cassette and gnav parts. Small potatoes compared to the new cockpit panels in your redo.

Am I correct that Ben built the cockpit with the wide side decks which narrows the pit drastically at frame 124. That was to satisfy some internal volume requirement of the micro class which I'm not trying to be a member of. there was no way I was going to build those wide side decks from day one.

Kevin.

...yup,,the boat had the 'traditional' or 'camper-sailor' cut,,,widesidedecks(~2' at the shroud ),,long cabin...
..you can see the difference in the pictures where I placed the cut from the old sidedeck onto the new
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59103003@N ... 076955693/

...soo,judgeing by 'poxy used,,I did ~a 40% rebuild it seems,,,probably a fair bit less in overall work
...it's been a BIG nuisance being ~40 minutes from the shop

[micah202]

here's some detail shots of the new keeltrunk,,,I'm happy to be rid of the tight-jamming foilshaped keeltrunk,,
,,replaced with a nice break-away set of blocks so the day doesn't become a messy catastrophe when I inevitably hit bottom

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59103003@N ... 139820618/

in the photo,,the white blocks are visible,,bolt onto each side of top of keel,,lock into slot when the keel's down.,
.....the bolts holding blocks to the keel can sheer if run aground,,while the keel's top-plate keeps the keel from deep-sixing!
.......pour-in-place foam ,visible at front of keel,was poured into 3 plastic bags ,,nicely filling the trunk so water doesn't bubble around while sailing.

...yes that's a plastic bucket built into the floor at front of keel--handy icebox,ditty bin

[micah202]

'peterta' asked a question through the photosite,,'will I use Behnsons'?
............yup,,I've molded some 'Behnsons' by putting 2 1x4's together,,shaping a bit,,,waxing and glassing.... beside the 'keel details' pictures in the set,,you'll see a shot of the deck post-skinning,,where one of the molded behnsons is sitting on the deck....cheers!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59103003@N ... 0139820618

[Chad]

Those eyestraps must be really hard to remove and reinstall!

The bensons do look slick. I can picture all sorts of lines and purchases being lead through them. They probably won't act as deck stringers though...

[micah202]

Those eyestraps must be really hard to remove and reinstall!

The bensons do look slick. I can picture all sorts of lines and purchases being lead through them. They probably won't act as deck stringers though...

..heh,,chad I can see why your mind pictures all the lines yer could run, ,,personally I don't feel the 'urge'

...and those eyestaps are -permanent- I'd trust any of 'em to lift the boat full 'o water
...can add more 'cupholders' later if I need access

...I built enough strength into the deck,,the benson's don't need to add strength....there's 3 frames fore,aft,,4 stringers crossways under the floor.
...in molding the bensons,,I used up some polyesther I had kicking around the shop,,instead of 'pox


..I'm surprised nobody's commented on the keel-trunk!

[Chad]

Hah, maybe it's just me then!

Tim Carter (Timbo on SA...) had a similar keel trunk idea back when- he was going to do a long trunk like yours with foam wedges at the back to absorb keel impacts. Then tie the long trunk into a centerline longitudinal girder...

If I were starting over I'd probably do something like that, or something similar that makes the boat a little less likely to use the back edge of the keel as a seppuku knife to slice itself open.

[micah202]

Hah, maybe it's just me then!

Tim Carter (Timbo on SA...) had a similar keel trunk idea back when- he was going to do a long trunk like yours with foam wedges at the back to absorb keel impacts. Then tie the long trunk into a centerline longitudinal girder...

If I were starting over I'd probably do something like that, or something similar that makes the boat a little less likely to use the back edge of the keel as a seppuku knife to slice itself open.

..in my box ,it's the white delrin chunks bolted to the keel at max-chord that act as the bearings/locks,go into slots in the sides of the trunk ,,but are the break-away element as well --bolts shear-off with enough impact,,top-plate saves keel.
............but I imagine all the gizmo's on your keel will act -nicely- as break-away shock absorbers if need be!

...be careful yer don't hit bottom at speed or yer -will- be 'starting-over'

[Chad]

My jibing shims will make the back edge very blunt, so at least it won't be a sharp edge slicing open the boat's belly. I think I have room to put a 1/4" pad at the back edge of the trunk, but that's not much. After that, the best scenario is the top of the keel rotating forward which would require the "gizmos" to be weak in that direction, and a radius cut into the keel head's forward profile.

... or just sail in water that's more than 4' deep!

[micah202]

... or just sail in water that's more than 4' deep!

.....................what's th'fun in -THAT-??

[micah202]

hmmm,,,I'm beginning to let go of this year's plan to do the Cgod regatta in the gorge.
...it's a great regatta in a spectacular place,,but I'd never in my right mind suggest it's a good place to do a first launch after a build,or in my case,a renovation...let alone familiarize with a new crew
...my initial plan was to have the boat in the water ~april,,hone-in rig details during the current period,,and feel pretty confident in my boat/gear/crew by early august ,and the gorge's beautiful and -windy- Cgod.....of course -reality- always has a way of getting in the way of one's best plans!!.....can -anyone- remember a time that a project takes -less- time than initially planned???
......the boat's coming well,,the paint's now on the deck,,,details to come,,but a series of 'other' events won't give me a lot of time to prep......someone here will remember when I commented..--''sometimes the best way to say 'I-love-you',is to put one's plans to the side''--,,,,and partly,I'm taking my own advice here,,,,otherwise I'd get all stressed trying to get the boat done and would have to push so many other good parts of life to the side


there's also another -primary- function of my boat that I need to put under review before focusing on high-wind sailing....I was concerned with the fitting that was made for the forestay/sprit/bow connection,,and how the 11'' eye-bolt bends under load.....I was told it was fabricated in accordance with 'tokyo-trash's system,,,so I thought I'd check with tokyo's owner about the durability of the peice....after a few comments back/forth,,,I received the following comment after sending a picture!!!........ http://www.flickr.com/photos/59103003@N ... hotostream
''Wholly shit! No wonder it bends!!!! That is a fucked setup, nothing like mine really.''
....soooo,,there's a LOT more to be done for the gorge and a weekend of 20-30knots than I wish,,,but conversely,,by passing on the gorge event,, the fitting is probably fine for sailing at most any other venue for the time being!

..looking at the portland fleet,,they're still just getting organized too,and methinks it'd be good for all of us to find some other less punishing locales to get to know our boats,builds and crews

[Kevin]

The gorge is fantastic to look at. Was out there about a year ago for work. I watched a beer can race from shore (work not allowing time for sailing). I could see how much fun it would be to blitz up the gorge.

On the bow fitting, the trick to that type of setup is the rod going through the pole. That adds length to the pin that has to support the forestay load at an angle which makes everything have to be oversized even more. I think TTB has a 12mm or 13mm rod with a bow nut on top of it. Ron built a carbon fitting that incorporated the rod and fit his bow. In the back of my head I have a plan to make something similar to what I've seen on a mini 6.50. It's a metal fitting that pivots and holds the prod on a pin, forward of the swivel point. This allows the prod to move up and down as well as swivel and fully relies on the bob stay. The trick is holding up the pole when not under load which they use a railing and bungee. The fitting would have to incorporate a vertical rod to hold up the prod. And the pivot bolt could be smaller with the forestay pinned right to the bolt closer to the deck.

Keep the work going and the pictures coming. Kevin.

[Chad]

there's also another -primary- function of my boat that I need to put under review before focusing on high-wind sailing....I was concerned with the fitting that was made for the forestay/sprit/bow connection,,and how the 11'' eye-bolt bends under load.....I was told it was fabricated in accordance with 'tokyo-trash's system,,,so I thought I'd check with tokyo's owner about the durability of the peice....after a few comments back/forth,,,I received the following comment after sending a picture!!!........
''Wholly shit! No wonder it bends!!!! That is a fucked setup, nothing like mine really.''

Here's a couple pics to compare a few above-deck prod swivels.
First Ben's (now Micah's):

Bens.jpg

Then TTB and Josh's (I think TTB made Josh's for him?):

TTB-Side.jpg

Shazza-front.jpg

And Ron's, which uses a (white-painted) carbon bow splash to encapsulate the bolt:

Rons.JPG

And finally Jason's, which puts the pivot on the deck and eliminates the tall bolt problem. I like Jason's best- see the i550 pics on FB to see more of his.

Jasons.jpg

[TexLex]

I was concerned with the fitting that was made for the forestay/sprit/bow connection,,and how the 11'' eye-bolt bends under load.....I was told it was fabricated in accordance with 'tokyo-trash's system,,,so I thought I'd check with tokyo's owner about the durability of the peice....after a few comments back/forth,,,I received the following comment after sending a picture!!!........
''Wholly shit! No wonder it bends!!!! That is a fucked setup, nothing like mine really.''

Can you elaborate on this so the rest of us don't F-it up???

Thanks!

Edit:

Looks like you beat me to it!

[micah202]

....mannnn,,I'd have to magnify those pictures a few times to see enough detail,,,
---Andrew talks of a ''5/8'' axle with the top threaded for the eye bolt, with two 4mm thick pieces of flat bar welded each side of the rod and tapering down to the bottom of the fitting''

...so a 1/2'' or bigger solid rod is the key??

...the existing eyebolt on my boat is 3/8''--I guess that's why it bends
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59103003@N ... hotostream ..you can see bend evident in the photo

...I'd be a bit concerned to put much bigger of a hole into my sprit,,though I guess the bobstay takes most of the load off the pole pivoting at the forestay area.

...I guess the key with these other designs is to have a pin or axle that goes through the strut and is rigid enough to maintain it's alignment perpendicular to the deck,,not bending to the angle of the forestay

...what size of bolt does Ron use inside that carbon 'splash'?

[TexLex]

...I'd be a bit concerned to put much bigger of a hole into my sprit

Im hesitant to put any hole in it, i was going to build a piece on the end of the pole (ala the way the carbon chainplates are being laid up) to put the pin through.