chain plates

[jerome]

Hi guys, long time no posting...

For those of you who have already finished boats, or at least have placed the chainplates, did you actually bolt them AND epoxied them to the gussets or is the later totally unnecessary ?

And as far as the holes on the gussets for the bolts to go through, were those over-drilled, filled with thickened epoxy and re-drilled like all the others ? I was wondering if that is really necessary as those holes should never see any type of water. Just bolting them with wet thickened epoxy might be enough.

Cheers !

Ps> took a ride this weekend on a 40 footer right on the Marmara bay. Wind was up to 27 knots and we never riffed the main, just had a great time but man was that boat slow ! It was a Beneteau Cyclades or something like that.

[jray]

My main concern in attaching the chain plates is that they don't move. More than making the attachment bolts water tight, I don't want any movement up and down. Being vigilant on the deck seal should insure no water migrates down the plate into the cabin. Just my thoughts, untested at this point.

[jeff.dalsin]

Jerome-

I only bolted the chainplates to the gussets. But I did overdrill those holes, fill with silica thickened epoxy, and re-drill. While that part of the boat *shouldn't* get wet, it inevitably will. Have a look any any boat older than ~10 years and you will almost certainly see water stains in the area where the chainplates are fastened.

It requires little extra effort to protect those structural gussets from potential rot.

Jeff

[jerome]

ok guys, thanks for the input.
I will see what I can do but I tried to place my chainplates as close to shear as possible and, although I am still pretty far from it (at least when you look at it from above), there is very limited space underneath deck to drill holes. I even had to buy one of those 90 degree angle gizmo to be able to drill holes to fix the chain plates. So over drilling , filling with epoxi, re drilling and all seems like a bit tough to do.
I will try my best and I know I cannot rush any step but cant think of anything but launching ! Not that I am bored with the construction but I am so close to sailing my boat I can hardly wait ! You have been through it I am sure !

[jray]

I'm dealing with the same thing jerome, I should have filled and drilled long before now. What I planned on doing is to coat the bolts with a release agent and set them in thickened epoxy when I bolt them in. If I coat the holes with epoxy before setting everything none of the wood should be starved where the bolts go through.

Going to be attaching the chain plates this week. Hopefully I'm not to far off track on what will work.

[jray]

The idea of setting the through bolts in thickened epoxy worked great. All the bolts were coated with a release agent, in the event I have to remove the chain plates for some reason. I'm pleased with the results.

[jerome]

What kind of release agent did you use ? Does that weaken the bond ?
İ actually set my bolts through thickened epoxy as well but did not use release agent so İ guess those chain plates are there for life. And by the way, the whole gusset + chainplate assembly looks reaaaaaaaaalllllly sturdy.
İ know have to bolt my mast base and that is a different story for wich a release agent could be great. Just dont have any clue on what to use....

[jray]

The product I used is Acraglas release agent part number 081-007-003AD, from Brownells.com, you paint it on let it dry then put everything together. The film is so thin after the epoxy sets, it is tite on the bolts but they will turn. If you are unable to get the same product my guess is any mould release agent would work. In a pinch I've used paste wax with varied results. Definitely better then nothing if you plan on removing the bolts in the future. On the mast base I drilled, filled and re-drilled then coated the top of the bolts in 3m's 4200 to seal everything up. I wouldn't trust the release, epoxy method to be water tight without using some 4200 at the deck area.

[ryderp]

A related topic - I'm about to order a spar for my boat and need to start thinking about standing rigging. Also, I'm ready to glue down the deck but need to install the chain plates. A couple of questions:

What type of chainplates are people using? Where are you buying them? Can someone post a picture or two of their chainplates and hardware connecting to the shrouds? Same for the headstay to bow stem links.

Help here would be greatly appreciated. I want to get the chain plates installed so that I can move forward.

Thanks

Phil

[jray]

Phil, I can email you the chain plate drawings Kevin worked up a few years ago, later tonight. I used APS's fitting for the headstay. When you get a chance pm your email address, I'd be happy to send some pictures of my rigging and info on what I used.

[Kevin]

McLube makes a great release agent for SS bolts set in thickened epoxy. 3-4 coats with a 5 minute delay between coats and you are good to go.

You want to be able to remove your chain plates for inspection purposes. Every couple of years you want to unbolt everything and make sure you don't have any rot issues or de-lamination of those gussets. So I'd recommend keeping that in mind. I sealed around my chain plates at the deck with 3m 4200 and had no leaks or issues.

The drawing I did is setup for 3 stays and spaced out so you can used the colligio marine small terminators if you plan to go the synthetic rigging route. Plenty of room for regular toggles too. It's overkill, but for a part you only want to make once, I'd rather over build then watch my rig come down because I tried to be clever.

Cheers, Kevin.

[ryderp]

Thanks. I have some 316 stainless on order and am going to fabricate the chainplates per Kevin's drawings (sent to me by Jon).

Phil

[noemar]

Anyway I could get a copy of the chain plate dwgs?
noemar

[Kevin]

Sure. Standard disclaimers apply. This is overkill and I did not make the backing plate. Next time I do this I'll coat the bolts and plate with mclube as a mold release and mount the bolts right into the thickened epoxy and washers/backing plate and bolts. Then remove everything and reassemble after the deck is on and seal with 4200.

Kevin.

i550ChainPlate.pdf - Removed, see post below with correctly printed version.

[slowpoke]

Kevin, I couldn't read the thickness of the material to use, is it 1/4"?

[Chad]

It's 1/8", which is already pretty beefy.

1/4" is Westsail32 territory...

[Kevin]

One more time with feeling, as my good friend Marshall would say. I used a different method of creating the pdf and all the measurements are in the pdf now.

Kevin.

i550ChainPlate.pdf

[ryderp]

Make sure that when you buy your stainless that you order a bright, or polished finish. I inadvertently ordered steel with a mill finish and it took me longer to grind off the surfaces of the parts than it did to fabricate them into the shapes shown in Kevin's drawing.

[Chad]

Seems to me if you're using 28-30-32 degree sweep instead of the shallower angle in the plans, you could use a triangle behind f110 instead of in front, and bump the chain plates all the way out to the shear. Better shroud leverage/geometry that way....

It's what I'd do if doing it again.

[admin]

Hey, from where did you guys end up ordering your chainplates? I've been all over the web and am having trouble finding a plate oops place that has:
1/8 inch thick
2.5 inches wide
bright finished
1 foot or 2 foot lengths

including McMaster, MetalsOnLine, SpeedyMetals etc.

or did you just pay someone to fabricate the thangs as drawn?

thank you.

[Kevin]

I didn't buy bright stainless. I bought 316 annaled (sp?) finish stainless steel and then polished the chain plate after shaping and drilling it. Piece of glass and some wet/dry sand paper will get the job done. Not the fastest process, but got the job done. Not my favorite part of the build process either. I should have paid more attention in metal working, but I liked wood working better.

K.

[jray]

Same here Tim, actually a friend got the plate for me. He is gone and I can't help with sources. Shaped and drilled but no polishing. I figured that was a cosmetic addition to the stainless. If I'm wrong let me know. It's working great so far.

[Chad]

I know stainless is more corrosion resistant the more polished it is. The surface is also supposed to be passivated, which creates the stain resistant outer barrier. Wichard's "Wichinox" is a good product- it's a polish and passivating solution all in one.

It's still pretty hard to avoid those rust streaks on the deck from the wire/turnbuckle/chainplate though.

[jerome]

İ cant believe this would be a big deal for you guys in the USA to get them custom made ! Hey, if İ managed to get them down here, you should be able to do the same.
Mine were cut and drilled by a regular metal shop. THe plate used is thick polished stainless steel

[lohwaikin]

Hi guys,

I'm onto gluing on the chainplate gussets next.
I did a little "mock-up" and noticed that the gusset edge contacting the hull inside panel cannot be totally aligned with the inner angle formed by frame F110 and the hull panel. In order to have the gusset surface aligned with the compression post axis, with top edge in full contact with the deck panel underside, the edge "Side to Hull" departs from frame F110.
Can somebody share some photos of your chainplate gusset position?

Cheers,
Loh Wai Kin,
Hull #437, Singapore.