Sugar Scoops!!!

[slowpoke]

Micah, is there any chance you could post a bunch of pictures of the scoop Ben made? I'm especially interested in how he addressed the rudder area.
Thanks!
Rocky

[Kevin]

I thought Chad had published the drawing he made up for Ben when he was designing the scoop. I'll take a look to see if I can find it. Chad may chime in here in the mean time. It had a notch in the center that allowed the rudder movement.

Kevin.

[Chad]

That drawing was by Brandt Onorato (I know that's not spelled right, but it's close) from the Bay Area. I think he converted his i550 into a tri, or planned to. He posted some tri renders on SA, and I don't remember his screen name there either.

Ah, found it. Here's the pic Ben initially built from:

sugar scoop-1.jpg

He had added a little rudder support beyond what is shown here, and added a little more after we discussed it during a visit. I'm not sure what he did exactly in the end- I never saw it finished. I think he did notch out a V for the rudder so it wasn't mounted all the way at the back of the scoop, but the rudder did mount some distance off the transom.

edit:
You can see pics of Ben's scoop build in these blog posts of his:
http://bensboogers.blogspot.com/2011/01 ... stomy.html
http://bensboogers.blogspot.com/2010/12/more-to-do.html

We discussed adding a longitudinal bulkhead connecting the aft rudder mount to the false transom to eliminate any parallelogram effects- again, I don't know if he added that. Micah would have to be the one to confirm that.

[micah202]

Micah, is there any chance you could post a bunch of pictures of the scoop Ben made? I'm especially interested in how he addressed the rudder area.
Thanks!Rocky

...it'll be a while before I can get pictures,the scoops -deeeep- in my storage area at the moment,but I'll be moving in the next month,and will get the chance then.There's some pictures on the 'ben's boogers' blog(?)

.....the scoop has 4 attachment points if I recall correctly.....one throughbolt ~6'' in from the the outside chines ,,
,,and I beleive a pin going through the boat's gudgeons.
....I beleive the rudder is mounted ~6'' behind the boat's stern,with an 'indent' in the scoop.


edit..yeh,the pictures in the blog,as posted above in chad's post show all there is to see except for the paint.
...the openings in the scoop remain there.....I'm thinking of sticking the extra lead there for the Gorge race

[admin]

Interesting stuff. This may be in the cards for #87 down the road if Charleston Race week is in the cards for 2013. I'm wondering about that indentation though...it looks like there is going to be a lot of disturbed flow off the end of that hula (hull apendage). These things (i550s) are notoriously slow in the light stuff...and I dont think that hula as designed is going to be doing anyone any favors. I sure do like the way weight has been (seemingly) minimized, though. Wonder if there could be a happy medium in another design solution (ahem ahem, Chad?)

Of course, in the Gorge, I reckon you won't have to worry about this!

[Kevin]

In the light stuff, put the heaviest crew on jib, get the knuckle in the water and the ass out of it. Any addanasstome (AAAToM) should be air borne.
K.

p.s. was at the Gorge in September and that is rarely a light wind venue. And you beat into the wind but with the current. Makes for some funky sailing.

[Chad]

Yeah, I don't see a way to design this much better. With the boat heeled and knuckle-down, the center of the scoop should definitely be in the air. I think the goal would really be to get almost no transom (or end-of-scoop) immersion- we talked about this a bit back on the old site, when inboard rudders first started getting mentioned.

Hanging the rudder further aft without a notch just means bigger loads carried further aft as far as I can tell.

Screen Shot.jpg

Ah heck, here's the fish-eye view again, with the knuckle buried 5" and the transom at the water surface, an all-up displacement of 1250 pounds, 10 degrees of heel, flat water (no bow/stern wave considered), and NO scoop. Looking at this, it looks like the scoop would let you get away with less bow immersion while still keeping the scoop corner clear. Of course, the weight of the scoop will contribute since it weighs more than it displaces when heeled like this, but I think it would allow crew to hike a smudge further aft than without a scoop.

[Chad]

Oh, I had a peek at the CRW NOR. They're requiring 20' for OD classes, and 24' for PH. (What next, will it be PH<120?!?)

So we need not just 5 boats to enter, but each one needs a 2' AAA2M as well. Does anybody think that will happen?

It seems there needs to be some different events on the radar, with a dingy/portsmouth focus rather than all this PHRF-uckery.

[micah202]

Oh, I had a peek at the CRW NOR. They're requiring 20' for OD classes, and 24' for PH. (What next, will it be PH<120?!?)

So we need not just 5 boats to enter, but each one needs a 2' AAA2M as well. Does anybody think that will happen?

It seems there needs to be some different events on the radar, with a dingy/portsmouth focus rather than all this PHRF-uckery.

..nice rendering Chad!....yeh I'm sure the flow would be clean assuming some heel.

.......I have t'think that by the time there's a happy OD fleet in a given area,,and we've proven ourselves a bit,,,some opportunities will open up.Event and PHRF organizers have been seeing boats getting smaller and sportier and are adjusting already

..JUST BUILD IT!!!!!!,,,go sailing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tim Ford]

Well said, Micah.

And you are right, too, Chad. Better luck maybe with another event somewhere else. I'm biased b/c I have a serious chubby on for Charleston, my favorite city on the East Coast by orders of magnitude.

Hey, there's always O.P.B.s

[Mist]

Chad wrote,

Oh, I had a peek at the CRW NOR. They're requiring 20' for OD classes, and 24' for PH. (What next, will it be PH<120?!?)
So we need not just 5 boats to enter, but each one needs a 2' AAA2M as well. Does anybody think that will happen?
It seems there needs to be some different events on the radar, with a dingy/portsmouth focus rather than all this PHRF-uckery.

Mist writes,
I'm really disappointed with the 20' limit! Then again, it just reminds me of what attracted me to the i550. I'm so tired of the bickering over ratings. In my view PHRF a 'complaint based' system, therefore, if you complain you'll get a portion of what you complained about. Write a letter explaining way the other boat rating is too high and eventually you'll get at least a portion of your request. I think the whole system teaches folks to complain. Not my cup of tea.
I'm game for new venues. When the boats finished and with proper planning I plan to travel with it. I may not preform very well but I'm certain I'll have fun. That's what sailing supposed to be, not worring about some letter in the mail that will change your rating.