Saving Money: Tricks for the Terminally Cheap

[Tim Ford]

I don't think anyone has gotten into the i550 game because they have a surplus of cash. So maybe it's a good idea to show how you economized, in certain ways.

Here's how JRay hooked me up with the good stuff for a fraction of the JD cost:

I looked at longboards and rolls of PSA sandpaper on the Jamestown site and came up with about $325 for two boards and 3 rolls of paper (60 & 100 gritz)..then on the advice of Jon, did some not particularly artful fabrication and used an on-line source to wrap this all up for about $90 - $100, total...not sure they are quite the same quality as the JD longboards, but hey this is sanding a boat, not carving the Laocoon.

24x36 Acrylic pane = 23.00
goop = 5.00
doorstops = 12.00
3 rolls 75 yd 60 & 100 grit PSA paper = $49.00 (i think...maybe a little more with shipping which I believe was about 5 bux) from Online Industrial Supply: http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/

IMG_0501.JPG

Any other examples of extreme cheapatude are welcome.

[Chad]

longboards are easy enough to make with bits of stuff left over from the build, or just stuff laying around the average garage. Mine are thin ply (too thin, I originally made them for keel fairing, and have added stiffeners to two of them), some hunks of wood glued and screwed from underneath, and sanding belts spray-mounted to the bottom.

boards.jpg

I just bought some 6x48" belts for the bottom of the boat, so new boards coming soon.

Other stuff to save money:
>There's better prices for composite stuff out there than the big retailers. Soller has good West System prices, I started being lots of fabrics from C&J Composites (they have a website, or look up their "store" on Ebay- my first purchases from them were done in parking lots of gas stations in Riverside, CA ), etc.

>Have a scrap glass and carbon and peel ply box, and go there first for all the small projects.

>After years of nothing but West systems epoxy, I tried a cheaper brand and it works just fine.

>Build what you don't want to buy. This is the defining characteristic of the i550 I suppose! For example, by doing a bunch of the fit out myself, my C-Tech rig cost about half of the full menu price, and just a little more than a mainsail.

>Spread the cost of stuff over time. Start "now", and spend what you can on hardware, supplies, materials, etc. The earlier you start spending, the less per month it costs to build.

[slowpoke]

It seems money is the deciding factor in the speed of my build, so I'm cutting corners wherever i can. My longboards are scrap pieces of wood with sanding belts glued to them, like Chad uses. I ended up using doug fir for my keel blade, and glassed it using polyester resin instead of epoxy, because that's what I had. And I got the lead for my bulb from a tire store, they gave it to me for free so they didn't have to pay hazmat disposal fees on it!

[Kevin]

We'll, here's a crazy cool thing.

I was at our DC in Phoenix this past week and what do I find but a roll of 5.8 oz 2x2 twill carbon sitting on a rack at a cutting table. I also found some 24" wide 9oz uni carbon that they would also sell by the yard.

Cost on either material would be substantially less then what you would pay just about anywhere else on the internet assuming you go through me of course. Very happy to help a builder in need.

Cheers, Kevin.

[noemar]

$$$$????? What do you have available for sale ? prices?
noemar

[Tim Ford]

Yes, could you further clarify the info above? First, I was wondering why you were shopping in Phoenix, but I see there is one in IL (there's one about 8 miles north of me, too, in Balto County). Next, what is a DC? I see on the Map there is a place in Phoenix IL called, "Da Hood Hook Ups In" (on E 153rd Street & Halsted...check it out if you don't believe me . Is that the place? Not trying to sound like a snob, but this doesn't exactly seem like a "carbon fiber" neighborhood...

[Kevin]

A DC is a "Distribution Center". My company has 32 of them across the country and we distribute all manner of composite materials; reinforcements, resins, catalysts, supplies and "crap". We have a location in Phoenix where we installed a computerized warehouse management system that I wrote.

We probably have a location "nearish" to just about anyone in the US, but not many locations will cut carbon and none will cut glass anymore. We generally sell to fairly large operations and deal in full package quantities. Since few people like to buy whole rolls of carbon twill at $3,000 bucks I was surprised to see the cutting table.

I'm verifying what they have and what they are willing to cut for us. I'll update later.

k.

[Tim Ford]

ah HAH! now I get it, sorry to be so slow on the uptake. There are a lot of auto repair and parts stores in that area, it looks like...I thought maybe it was one of them.
This sounds interesting! Definitely keep us posted. I need a few more yards it looks like.

as for "Da Hood Hook Ups In"...do they mean "Inn?" Is it like a Holiday Inn?

[M&S]

I think this needs boat shoes on the ground for recon.
Good idea about the cheapo solutions.

[Kevin]

as for "Da Hood Hook Ups In"...do they mean "Inn?" Is it like a Holiday Inn?

I can't comment on that location. I could have looked for it while I was there, but alas I'm back in Chicago now. The DC is in a massive industrial area on the west side of town that is challenging at best. All the heavy manufacturing they can't do in CA anymore is now in Phoenix.

[Chad]

I could probably use some uni for sumthin or other, but my March budget is blown on a sail payment, some hardware, and string. And today I ran myself out of West, so no more of that til April...

Budgets suck!

[Chad]

longboards are easy enough to make with bits of stuff left over from the build, or just stuff laying around the average garage....
I just bought some 6x48" belts for the bottom of the boat, so new boards coming soon.

This makes a BIG longboard. And pushing this mother loaded with 40 grit while leaning out over the boat is no treat. But the dust piles up quickly on the floor!

Photos - 4818.jpg

I added the grab rail since it's tough to get leverage with your arms spread so wide, but it's important to press near the ends of the board when sanding convex surfaces. I think the two plies of 1/4" ply are about the right stiffness for the hull bottom, and the sides aft of about frame 18. Forward of that there's some hollow and twist that make the big board unwieldy on the hull sides.

[jerome]

I though I would use this thread to let you guys know İ have finally summed up all of the material bills İ gathered since day 1 of the building process.They all add up to U$ 10.302,2 for everything related to building from epoxy resin to masking tape and İNCLUDİNG all the electrical tools İ bought. İf you add mast (professional local built-new) , sails (NorthSails,Dacron-new) and engine (Yamaha 5hp-second hand, less than 10hours of use) the total soars up to U$14.911.
For sure İ was not trying to build it cheap as İ bought most of my epoxy and paint from West Marine and all of the smal material at Bauhaus. Both stores are a rip off here in Turkey but they are so convenient that it was worth it for me.
So overall, İ think it is very realistic to conclude you can build this boat for something close to 10.000 U$. Even my boat at almost U$15.000 is a great value...Heck, an equivalent boat here in Europe such as the SpeddFeet will cost exactly twice as much !

[ryderp]

Jerome,

I admire your ability to keep cost records through the whole project. I intended to do the same, but got behind about a month or so into the build and have been "blissfully ignorant" of the cost since then - although my wife keeps reminding me that my initial estimates were WAY off. My wild guess is that my costs are in line with yours although I went with an inexpensive Dwyer DM4 mast that I picked up at the factory so there was some significant savings there.

On another note - personally, I don't count tool purchases in the cost of any project since every project provides an opportunity to buy new tools.

Phil

[cstay]

I also thought i would keep track of every penny. I have a massive pile of like 1/2 the receipts. I also came into it thinking i would be able to build it for 8-9 now im realizing it will be more like 15k

[slowpoke]

I've been going to some of the marine swap meets, picking up hardware. It may not be new or look as pretty as some, but it works great, at a price I can afford!

P.S. After all, who wants all the hardware to look alike? Too confusing!!

[lohwaikin]

I am very tempted to build my mast out of scarfed timber strips glued into a box and planed into an oval section, glue on luff tube and glass (or carbon) the entire stick over twice.
If anyone has done this, or knew somebody who has done it, will you please share the experience with me?
I read from http://www.idniyra.org/articles/mast_made_easy.htm that this is possible.
Reason here is that the shipping to Singapore of either a Z-spar Z170, or a Dwyer DM368, or a Rolly Tasker T8, costs 1.5x the mast price.
The money saved can buy me more Dacron and Nylon to attempt on sewing the sails...
Basically I'm really building on a budget, and I'm keeping tab of the build cost down to the zip-ties...

2012-06-02-4 (small).jpg

[jray]

There are great articles on building wood masts on line. One I have alwase wanted to do is the birdsmouth mast. Check it out www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/birdsmouth/index.htm

I thought it would be fun to build my own spars for a small wooden daysailer or skiff. Building one for the i550 would be a lot of work.

[ryderp]

I've had pretty good luck using carbon fiber sleeves from Solarcomposits.com to mold things. So far, I made my own bow prod and prod receiver tube, a well for a keel crane, two sets of spreaders and a foam cored rudder, using various sizes of this sleeve material and some unidirectional carbon fiber where appropriate. Of course none of these have been put to the test in the water, but they are all incredibly rigid so we'll see if they hold up after the launch (hopefully by the end of next month). I don't know why you couldn't use the birdsmouth method described above (maybe with balsa) and then coat the thing with a few layers of CF sleeve. Here is a link to my blog where I described creating the prod: http://i550-381.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-09-06T05:59:00-07:00&max-results=7. Chad made his own boom using CF and a different method (described in his blog). There is a lot of stress on a boom also, but the failure of a boom or a bow prod aren't as serious as having a mast break on the water.

Phil

[Tim Ford]

Phil, I visited the solarcomposites website and am really interested in trying their sleeve material...but I have a lot of questions. Maybe we should start a CF Sleeve thread? I'll do it later today when I get my act together at work, first.

[Big_Dog]

lohwaikin,
Here are a few links I have collected on CF masts.

The method I like is from building a DN Mast build, but the second video in the series is down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUQ9K4xNrIA

Experiment on building a cast Carbon Fiber dinghy mast http://www.christinedemerchant.com/carbonmast.html

Krakenbait gets a carbon fiber mast http://morocz.com/BoatBuilding/mast01.htm

Bateau - Carbon Fiber Mast
http://www.boatbuildercentral.com/howto/cf_spar.php
http://www.boatbuildercentral.com/howto/cf_spar2.php
http://www.boatbuildercentral.com/howto/cf_spar3.php

Bird's Mouth SKERRY MAST and Spars
http://www.christinedemerchant.com/mast.html

[slowpoke]

Hey guys, wanted to let you all know the cheapest place I found to get epoxy. It's Aeromarine Products, in San Diego County, CA.
Their web site is at: http://www.aeromarineproducts.com/

For fillers the cheapest place I found was Fiberglass Supply, their website is: http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/

Hope this helps out a little in the cost area!!