C-Tech rig -- Issues

[admin]

Wow, what a weird day yesterday. Merit25 and I were supposed to have a go at assembling the rig, for the ostensible purpose of taking measurements for him to start fabricating the standing rigging (synthetic stuff).

The first issue was, there must have been some swelling or material accretion on the inner diameter and outer diameter of the respective female and male joining sections, because it took a few hours of sanding and lubrication and experimentation to get the damn thing to mate properly. A significant portion of that time was spent trying to UNSEAT the sections when it became obvious that there was no way the gap between the two mating surfaces was not going to close. So, more time with the 320 and 600 grit.

While working on getting the thing to assemble, we noticed something wack....we were running the halyards, thinking it would be easier to feed the lines through three short sections than it is through one 25' long section. This is where things got interesting.

See photos

[admin]

According to prior correspondence, the jib halyard exit should be at approx 242" and the slot for the forestay at 245.5"

here is the shot of my mast at those points:

IMG_1834.JPG

as you can see, at 244 inches, there is what appears to be a T-ball slot, not a halyard gate. There's just the one hole, no slot for a mast gate/haltyard exit.

I suppose I can just drill the new slot (at ~242") and use 244" for the forestay attachment.

[admin]

Next is the slot near the top of the mast. See photo:

IMG_1832.JPG

this slot is at 295....WTF?
Maybe this was the slot that was supposed to be at 242 (jib halyard) exit, a given distance down from the end of Section 2, that someone at C-Tech mistakenly cut into Section 3? I have no idea. Can anyone give me a reason for why it is there? Does anyone else have it, cut into that part of the rig?

ANy ideas??? Thanks, --TF

[jray]

I had to cut and install the jib halyard exit. The only slots factory cut were for the t-ball fittings. I believe the upper slot in your second picture was planned as a exit point for the spinnaker halyard so it didn't have to exit through the top, concern being not enough room to get the spin halyard and main in. I actually didn't have any problems running both inside and did not use the exit slot pictured.

[Tim Ford]

Excellent news, thanks Jon.
I got to thinking later on and sorta came to the above conclusion....except for that slot at 295...that one I couldn't get because is seems to load up that area differently than a block at the top fitting. I dunno. But a top exit into a sheave seems like a much better solution.

[Chad]

Funny, I had them do the opposite of you first-order folks- the only bit of hardware they installed for me was the jib halyard box, and they cut in that same spin halyard slot. I thought the sheave box used bigger rivets than my little tool could handle (max 3/16").

I had no fit issues with the join- I dry fit it part way, pulled it apart, G-Flexed it up and it slid together nicely. Don't forget to rough up those finely sanded surfaces with something like 80 grit.

I put a sheave in rather than external block for the spin, runs fine through that exit slot, still haven't used it in anger though. I had to drill a new hole for the sheave, higher and further forward.

I wouldn't run mouse lines before gluing sections together- good chance of squeeze out inside, gluing your line in place. It's really easy to stand the mast up a little (I use a second story balcony railing), and feed a weighted string down for each of the halyards. You'll probably need to do this occasionally over time, so might as well assemble the parts (string with weights, bent wire to fish it from the exit) and practice the routine.

[Kevin]

Sorry for the late reply. It's been a busy week on many fronts.

The spinnaker halyard exit slot (at 295") is intended to allow an external block to be used. Reasons to do so could include... preventing chafe, more weight aloft, clashing sheaves at the mast head, loosing a 1/2 inch of hoist height. My initial rigging used an external block. I have use for that block elsewhere and have a new 1.5" harken wire block sheave waiting to install at the masthead to change that as Jon, Ron and Jeff did. I'll take a look to evaluate the internal halyard or continue to use the slot and move the sheave forward as Chad described.

Yes, you'll have to cut in a jib halyard sheave. This was left out because of the massive discussion going on at the time we ordered them and the variety of ideas about the "best setup".

My mast assembled fine back in the day, but I had to fix a mismatch issue because Ron and I had 1 section swapped between us.

I had to sand my spinnaker pole so that it would fit inside my inner sleeve. That was certainly a pita and I feel your pain with having to do that for your mast sections.

Keep on trucking!!! Kevin.

[Tim Ford]

Thanks you guys. Here's a thought: how important do you think gluing with G-Flex is? How likely is it the rig is going to twist so much that the sections need to be glued? I installed the 2 "pins" (clipped from the SS "piano wire" they included in the package) and they do serve as excellent alignment guides and as stops if any twist is incurred. It's just that with the rig honked down with the shrouds (compression loaded) and the tension imparted by the main bolt rope, I find it hard to imagine the 3 sections twisting out of alignment. But I could be wrong and am often told that I am...practically on a daily basis.

Make that an hourly basis.

[Chad]

Trailering? With those glued on spreaders, aka lever arms?
-agree, sailing probably won't be a problem without the glue.

[Tim Ford]

Good point about the spreaders.
I got my sails yesterday and was comparing my flattie main with the shot of yours on SA. My top measurement is 62.5 inches, which is about 60% of the foot length (104.5 inches) How do you think that compares with yours? Do you know the proportion head:foot length? Also, I think my roach begins to decrease more significantly a bit lower down on the sail...I have to measure what the total SA is. Unforch, head is not visible in this photo.

Kite seems huge!

kiteandMain.jpg

[Tim Ford]

Also: my only worry so far with these sails is the size of the main's bolt rope (luff rope). The line is 3/8" and then there is the cover, which adds more volume. I didn't have time last night to try see if the head will run through the slot, but I measured it and to my surprise, the luff rope channel is about a half inch in diameter....so I reckon it will be OK...sure hope so.

[Kevin]

On the g-flex... I'd highly recommend that you glue them together. I asked Alex about just slide fitting them after I saw that the viper guys had setup their rigs to come apart. He replied that to do that the sleeve would need to be much longer for that to work and extra cloth around the area would be a good idea to keep it all together. Also, an angled joint would be used to cause the compress load to aid the alignment. I'm hoping that makes sense.

On your main roach, I'm curious about what you are saying. I plan to lay mine and Erwan's out soon to compare them. His is a very different cut and design principle from mine. His has a wider head and a little negative curve in the leach allowing the head to fall off easier in a big puff but sit big out there in the light stuff. That's the theory as I understand it.

[Tim Ford]

MainLatellSails.jpg

Here's the full shot of the main...should've posted it earlier
tf

[Chad]

Good point about the spreaders.
I got my sails yesterday and was comparing my flattie main with the shot of yours on SA. My top measurement is 62.5 inches, which is about 60% of the foot length (104.5 inches) How do you think that compares with yours? Do you know the proportion head:foot length? Also, I think my roach begins to decrease more significantly a bit lower down on the sail...I have to measure what the total SA is. Unforch, head is not visible in this photo.

I'll unroll the sail this afternoon and get some lengths.

[Kevin]

Tim,

Your main looks very similar in cut to Lunatic Fringe's (Was Ron's now is Erwan's, anikin here on the forum). Square footage wise Mine and LF's are supposed to be about the same, it's just where it's located that's different. I'm thinking Chad's main is just bigger at the head and fuller roach, flat out bigger in every dimension. I'm hoping he is so overpowered that I zip right by him . Time will tell.

Kevin.

[Chad]

I'll unroll the sail this afternoon and get some lengths.

Head is 82", first (non-gaff) batten is 100", then a straight line to the clew.

[admin]

Interesting! Thanks for taking the time to measure it, Chad.

[slowpoke]

That's what I want!!!!!!

[Tim Ford]

Quick and stupid question to C-Tech mast people. I have to cut the notch in the base of the mast to accommodate the tube in the step they (C-Tech) supplied. How did you guys do this? Did you drill a hole approx. the size of the tube and then jigsaw or file out the bottom of the slot? Am I missing something here?

Also: my mast is going to sit on, and point load, the 4 screw heads that hold the mast step on the cabin roof. Did you guys file these spots out and thus eliminate the point loads on the screw heads? I suppose I could just replace these screws with flathead fasteners, but there will still be a bit of metal sticking up at 4 points into the mast base.

(see crude drawing)

MastBaseNotch.jpg

[jray]

Tim I made the notch with a large round file. I don't remember any issues with the hold down bolts interfering with mast. Memory not clear on what I used but I believe the hold down bolts are outside where the mast sits. I will look this weekend and let you know.

[Tim Ford]

Thanks Jon.

These are some pretty thick sections so I was a little worried about how long it would take to file. I thought maybe a dremel tool would work, but am worried about heat build-up and compromising the base of the mast, somehow.

In all honesty, I have a deep fear of screwing up this thing (rig) as I approach the finish line (so to speak)

[jray]

I was surprised how well a medium course round file worked. I taped a steel yardstick to the bottom of the mast to help visually align the notches with the spreaders. No heat problems, I don't move that fast. Start with a smaller file and keep opening it up until the base plate fits the way you want. I would suggest not overly tight, will make the stepping easier.

Don't forget to g-flex the inner sleeve in first.

[Tim Ford]

No worries, we definitely G-flexed in the inner sleeve cylinder. I like the G-flex stuff a lot, very easy to work with and forgiving with the one hour cook time. Also, the dremel tool knocked out the mast step tube "slot" in short order. I think it took about 20 minutes and most of that was me looking for small lock-down dremel screws in the grass.

RigUp.jpg

We got the rig up. The first time was a bit of a horror show as the "draft" version of the shrouds were way too long, plus all three halyards were stupidly left "sky'd," so once the rig was vertical, there was actually no support other than the one line we had attached at the forestay fitting, which made for a very, very unstable pole pointing at the sky. Luckily there was no wind and, equally as lucky, my saint of a wife hadn't left to go on errands and the third hand sort of saved the day. The second time was much easier and striking the rig is a breeze. One thing that was a huge learning curve: whenever we'd take the base of the rig off the step, with the pole still not down to horizontal all the way, the person unstepping the mast base (me) was anticipating a huge load. Each time we'd pop the rig off the base, it'd be like....OH! Gosh! That's really light!

I still have to order the Harken 1.5 wire thru-deck hardware to use as a jib halyard exit block. I'm proceeding under the assumption that the hole gets cut in at approx 242" e.g, as close to the forestay attachment point as possible, with out stepping on the T-ball gate that is held in with 4 pop rivets.

With regard to the cap shrouds, the slots are open cut-outs with no backing plate. That means the T-ball fittings are working against pure carbon fiber. Obviously I'd like to install proper backing plates. Has anyone spec'ed out this part? I'm thinking it's:

NT74006 T-Ball Plate 3/16 http://www.apsltd.com/c-926-T-BallFitti ... Hooks.aspx (thanks for any advice!)

ANyway, after a while, with Trevor patiently trimming the dyneema down to size and executing perfect splice after perfect splice, we got the length and tensions just right and everything ready to rock. I'm pretty psyched but there's a lot more to do. Huge thanks to Harney Yacht Rigging for the time and energy Trevor has put into this project.

[Kevin]

Looking like a boat that could go places. Excellent!

I seem to recall that the shroud t-balls are located at the splice between the tip section and the middle section right? If yes, then yes backing plates go there. They are a must. They should match the t-balls you are using. Don't put working loads on just the carbon spar unless you like messed up carbon. Good news, you can always fix carbon. Bad news, it slows down the time to water quite a bit.

Also, remember that the keel sticks up above the cabin so your stepping process needs to work around that once you have a keel in the boat. I bought a hinged step and have it rigged to the mast with line so it flexs enough to angle the mast and not run into the keel. It's a little ugly, but allows single handing the mast stepping process. I use a 5:1 come along to tension the rig against the shrouds while connecting the fore stay.

Lastly, look for those new splices to set in a bit once you sail in a bit of breeze unless your rigger had a setup to load them up and set them.

Next stop, the lift to put that keel in.

Kevin.

[admin]

KevVangLash.jpg

Next question: vang attachment to the boom. What method did you use? Looks like, from the one shot I could find, Kevin's is lashed with a loop of spectra that goes over the boom to a "stop" on the underside, is that correct Kevin? How is that working out for ya?

thanks, --TF